National Guard to the Rescue

I don't understand what we are hoping to accomplish by putting 6,000 national guardsman along our border with Mexico. Are we going to shoot them if they try to come across? I don't have the answer to the illegal immigration problem but I'm pretty sure this isn't it. We have to work with the Mexican government to implement a joint solution.

I also think this will really hurt the guard. These people have lives. They signed up to help in times of emergency not to pull a one year hitch guarding the Mexican border. What a horrible waste of time and money - my money.

This is just dumb.

I'm sure the Mexican Gov't is willing to do anything needed to stop the flow of illegals into our country...

Bush is brilliant! Using the National guard to eliminate immigration? Awesome. I don't know what you guys are complaining about. If you listened to Bush (aka GOD), then you know that they will not even be enforcing the law. All the NG is going to be used for is constructing access roads, building fences, and training BP. Pretty much they are going to be camo-wearing construction workers who can't lay one finger on a border jumper. Why not use the NG. All they do is sit on thier asses and wait for an emergency to happen. They're not real people anyway.

I didn't watch the president's speech last night...but I read the text of it. I agree with using high-tech gadets to enforce the border. I am a bit hesitant to use the guard, but as I understand it is not ment to be permanent, and they will act in a support role to the Border Patrol as they are also being increased. If I am not mistaken, the governors of Arizona, New Mexico and Texas have been asking for this, or have already implemented similiar ideas. Plus I doubt that the same units will be used for the entire year, more likely they will be rotated around.

On another note, I just can't get on board with this temporary worker program. I know its not realistic to deport every illegal, and I know the president is not proposing amnesty, but I just can't get behind it. Here is some text from the president's speech.

And temporary workers must return to their home country at the conclusion of their stay.

There is no way that is going to happen.

This program would match willing foreign workers with willing American employers for jobs Americans are not doing.

Here is the issue I have not heard one person talk about. Business owners hire illegals because they do not have to pay them minimum wage, or competative wages at least, and because they do not have to claim them for tax purposes, so they don't have to pay into Medicare and Social Security. If this program is implemented, business's will have to pay "illegals" minimum wage at the least, AND they will have to pay the appropriate taxes as well! So the appeal of hiring an illegal quickly loses its positives.

I believe that illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, to pay their taxes, to learn English, and to work in a job for a number of years. People who meet these conditions should be able to apply for citizenship, but approval would not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law.

This is actually something I haven't heard before in and it doesn't sound too bad to me.

No, it's not meant to be permanent. Nothing is. Bush said that the initial deployment of Guard for this task will be for one year. After that year the number of guardsmen will be decreased as more border patrol and police are supplied. This sounds a little reminiscent of Iraq, no?

I thought you read the transcript?? Or did you just watch the Fox news summary? Each unit mobilization will last one year. From the prez's mouth. This is a gross misuse of our country's resources.

Oh, wow good one...I must have watched the FOX summary....idiot. I read the entire transcript and it does not say that each unit mobilization will last a year. It says this

This initial commitment of Guard members would last for a period of one year.

That doesn't clearly say what guard units, or from what states and how long they will be used.



One requirement of a sovereign nation is to have a stable border...we do not have a stable border, and it is the job of the president to use whatever resources possible to secure the border.

I find it hard to have an intelligent dialogue with someone who refers to himself as "CannibalDan"

Real mature. Name calling. Right, the initial commitment would last for a period of one year. What did you think that meant? That a unit would go there, work for a week or two, then go home. Get real man. A stateside NG mobilization will last a year. Each unit must be trained and briefed specifically for this task. It will take weeks or months for each unit to be ready for duty. Do you seriously expect these units to be mobilized for a month, or two , or three?? Get real man. These guys are in it for a year. Of course he didn't clearly say which states, units will be. Has the president been clear of anything he's ever said. No, he lies, misleads, and makes it all up as he goes along. The reason that he didn't say exactly how long each unit is going to be mobilized is so he doesn't catch any shit for these units being there for a year. And so party loyalists like yourself can sit there and deny deny deny because there is no "concrete answer." You know what he meant just as well as the rest of america, why are you trying to defend him?



Why the big rush NOW? Immigration has been a problem for years and years. Why didn't he try to do this earlier? Bush doesn't really think ahead, strategically implement plans. He just throws money and troops at the problems. We have nukes at our disposal. Thousands of them. Why don't we just go at our borders with shock and awe? I mean, it is a possible resource to secure our border. Use your common sense man. And who are you to say what the presiden't job is? Don't you think that our country has more imminent problems than immigration right now? Is the war in Iraq over? Has Osama been captured? How can we catch millions of mexicans living amongst us if we can't manage to catch one towel-head living in caves in the desert? Every time you open your mouth I laugh.

What a moron. Can't attack his arguments directly, so you attempt to belittle him by making fun of his screenname.

Whats apparently going on here is that someone who everyone thought was an idiot actually has intelligence and is completely owning hett.

I expect that military units will be rotated in and out of active duty similiar to how units are deployed in Iraq. Of course I didn't say they would be there for a month a two, but it is reasonable to assume that a tour on the border might last 5-6 months.

So have you read anything that indicates the same forces will be along the border for the entire year? Well here is what I have read.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/12/border.defense/index.html

The Pentagon said it could sustain a National Guard force of up to 10,000 troops along the border by rotating the forces during regular training cycles, but that it's too early to discuss exact numbers. Any such use of the Guard would be temporary, it said.



Everytime people like you say that about me, you look stupid. My first post in this thread said what I like, and what I dislike about the president's plan, a real party loyalist wouldn't have said what I disagreed with Bush about.



Sp according to yourself, when should we start caring about illegal immigration?



Our country has dozens, if not hundreds of issues to be dealt with. Should all 535 members of Congress focus on one issue at a time, until that problem is sovled, or should we work on multiple issues at the same time? What does finding Osama have to do with the Congress reforming immigration? Nothing, its not like the Congress was busy in the hills of Aghanistan looking for Osama, and we pulled them away to make a law, or that we are pulling troops away from Afghanistan to patrol the Mexican border.

WHOA - Chill there buddy!
i simply think the name CannibalDan is amusing
i was not referring to his arguments or lack there of...

how can I belittle a person who goes by CannibalDan??

well, in that case....

sorry buddy.

This post has been edited by LiterOfCola on May 16 2006, 01:54 PM

Thank you. Apology accepted!

dirtbag...nah, just kidding...

Have you talked to any soldiers that have served in Iraq? Not one unit spent less time than a year in Iraq, and even then as the soldiers were packing thier shit up to come home, they got extended for another six months, a year. Maybe after a year a tour might last 6 months, but not initially.


What I got from that article is just a bunch of really general statements that can't be confirmed. The "Pentagon" said. Who is the pentagon? Well they said that it could sustain a NG force up to 10,000 troops. Yeah, rotating the forces during the training cycle. Read: After a year, new troops will be rotated in as some are rotated out. They also say, by the article you supplied, that it's too early to discuss exact numbers. Not one thing in that article was firm, and it was released well before the Presiden't public address. ""President Bush could announce a plan as soon as next week, and Pentagon sources told CNN on Friday that National Guard troops might be involved.

Bush is scheduled to speak on immigration and border security at 8 p.m. Monday in an Oval Office address""
That article said absolutely nothing.

No, you're stupid. I'm telling on you!! Fucking grow up man. This post is the first time I have ever heard you disagree with the president. You back him up on the most ridiculous things. Like the rest of your post. And every post of yours in this thread since.

A long time ago. Now is a great time to do something about it. If you read my posts, and actually paid attention instead of trying to find a way to make me look bad, then you would get it. We should do something about immigration. But plan for it. Think things through logically. Plan ahead. Why does the NG have to be a part of it? How many border states are getting millions upon millions of dollars for thier police forces for this reason? It's almost like he had a dream, woke up and was like "lets get some troops together and go fuck with some beaners!" He doesn't think things through. That's why we have such a mess in Iraq right now. But you probably don't think so. Another thing; Bush was granting amnesty, and wanted to even give drivers' licences to illegals right before the pres. election to get more votes. That's a big "flip flop" to go from protecting aliens to using military force to remove them from the states.

Maybe Congress should figure out how to tie up the loose ends that are left out there instead of trying to pull attention away from our global failures by creating new fiascos so the media can pick up on them. Yes we should work on multiple issues at the same time, but only until it becomes ineffective. Would you have our country spend hundreds of billions of dollars on many failed, half-assed projects. Of course you would. Why take on so many issues if we have no way of finishing them off? And yes, I do think that we should focus on an issue until that problem is solved. You don't? And you call me an idiot? Here Hett, why don't we just initiate a bunch of solutions and see if they work themselves out. God am I glad you are not a politician. No, we are not pulling troops away from Afghanistan to patrol the border, but they are our resources. Resources that are now going to be occupied. Bush is so quick to use NG for border patrol, but what were they doing after Katrina?

good luck national guard. i hear them mexicans are fast

This post has been edited by donvito on May 16 2006, 03:09 PM

it may just be me, but I see nothing in that attachment...

I have several friends who have, or currently serve in Iraq, and I have lost one of them in 2004. Depending on the role they serve in the military, makes a big difference in how long they are deployed, and if they deployements are lengthened. Ask youself why the deployments in Iraq were lengthened, usually because of increased violence, or special events like the handover of power or the elections. Are there any similiar events on the border that would cause a deployment to be lengthened? Not likely.



you're right, the specifics of everything is still not certain. We don't know what units will be deployed (even though it can be safely assumed that it won't be artillery units, or armor units), or even how long they will be deployed. You say the units will be there for a year, I disagree and showed you a comment from the Pentagon that says they are prepared to rotate deployed forces....what have you showed me? Nothing.



You should read a little more than.

This is exactly why I stay out of these threads... These are all just matters of opinions and interpretations. There is no wrong or right, but what is best suited for the country at the time the problem is presented. We can argue until we are blue in the face, but it changes nothing. We have a president that is doing his job... bottom line. Now when I say he is doing his job I am talking about the job that this nation elected him to do. Did he stick with his plan that got him elected? Perhaps not, but he did what he did to win. I'm not saying its a good job and I'm not saying it's a bad job. As with every presidential term there is going to be an opposing side.
Do I like Bush... no. Some of the things he has done has been beneficial, but I think he has caused more problems then he has helped. But thats MY opinion.
All I'm saying is there is no way of knowing the weight of all the responsibilties that position holds.

Air Force units stay as little as three months and as much as thirteen overseas.

arriba! arriba! Andale!!!

This is a joke, right?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060516/ap_on_...s_immigration_6

If they really cared about the welfare of their people, they would do something about, you know, getting them jobs and education in Mexico rather than pushing them to America.

Right now it is all rhetoric. Kinda like saying lets go back to the moon by 2014... then NASA gets their budget cut. I'll believe it after it is done. Sorry, I just think this will not actually happen. Why now? After ignoring the problem for so long I can't see this getting implemented. Too many land rights/ public domain battles to be fought in the courts before this even gets started. What about the Minute Men and the reports that border agents were told to ignore their calls/reports. Has that policy been changed as well?

i agree, 90% of what politicians say is all bullshit anyway. Whether or not it actually happens, no one knows yet, I just think Bush is starting to say stuff like this to shine a better light on the right with the elections coming up.

Immigration is the 06 version of the gay rights issue back in 04. There might be a few slight changes to a law or two on immigration, but after the elections, when politicians dont have to sweet talk the public to get votes, it will go away with no major changes done.

They are setting the stage for the 2008 election.

All campaigns will be based around immigration and borders. Noone will deal with the problem until after that.

Really?
Who would have
thought it?


damn
this CannibalDan
isn't a complete moron

This post has been edited by MrSparkle on May 17 2006, 11:42 AM